UNKnowN x Creative Journeys - Gregory Dubus

Polina Nosova: What inspires you to create your work or to come up withideas for it? Do you plan beforehand or do you mostly follow your intuition?Take us through your process.

_{Gregory Dubus: So, in general, when people look at my paintings, they think that there was lot of thinking to make all those structures. And in fact, not.I will say, the time of reflection and preparation has been maximum 1% and 99%is creating the painting.}

_{In reflecting, I ask myself: Do I want to make a big painting or a small painting? Do I want to go with all kinds of tiny details,or do I want to make big kind of drawings and what kind of color do I want to use? This has been using my conscious, it's pretty quick, but from that moment I put my hand on the piece of paper, everything is done unconsciously. And the reason is that, for example, I'm doing structures made of triangles. So, I'm creating triangle compositions within triangle structures. And I realized that if I use my conscious saying, oh, what I've just done, don't do it again, I will have two problems. The first one requires me a lot of efforts. I see, oh, I should not do it again. What did I do previously to avoid that? And even if I will try to not do it twice, I will still do it, because by saying, oh yeah, I should not, I should not--at the end, you are doing it anyway. Whereas that when you use your unconscious, your unconscious is stronger, than your conscious. And at the end, I noticed that I never do the same thing twice. And on top of not doing it twice, because the objective is always to do different compositions, I keep the pleasure of doing it. And for me, the most important is to get pleasure when you paint. So, this is why it has been almost always no reflection, just doing apart from the beginning.}

PN: But as I understand, you do have concepts behind yourpieces. For example, the "Resite"piece is a self-portrait. How does that come about? Does the meaning come aftercreation?

_{GD: From the first day I started to paint, I never had any reflection about what I was doing. I was just doing things for pleasure. One day when I joined an art gallery for the first time, the gallerist asked mesome questions, but I had never thought about it. So, it's at that moment Istarted to think like, why are you making triangles? What triggers that youdecided to become an artist, you know? What is the process that you arefollowing and all these kinds of things. And so, when he asked me those questions,I went back home because I could not answer, you know, I never thought aboutit. And basically, when I'm painting, I'm putting myself in unconscious mindset. I become hypnotized. Also, for your information, I like psychoanalysis. And psychoanalysis is free association.  So even if it looks stupid, don't cut-- just free association.}

_{So, what I did, I went in front of one of my paintings to put myself in this hypnotic state, and I started to go with free association. And first question I had was why I became a painter. The first answer was, hey, thefirst moment of happiness I remember in my life was when my nanny offered me acolor book. But then I asked, why was I so happy to get this coloring book? And I found out that the technique that I'm using today to do all my paintings isusing the coloring technique. I first do the drawings, then I do the coloring.In French, drawing means "dessin". But "dessin" can alsohave a second meaning in French: "de sein". If you cut "dessin"into "de" and "sein" it becomes "woman's breast”. And then when you do the coloring, you remove the white because it was white, and you color it so there's no more white. Now think woman breast--remove the white. Woman breast, take out the milk. Doesn't make sense at first, but if you know that I was born at six months old; I never got breastfed. I was in a box,so I think unconsciously I was frustrated. And when you are frustrated, and you cannot fix it, or find an answer to it, you can go to a psychologist. But I didn't go to a psychologist, because until maybe 25 years old, I was drinking only milk. Always drank milk, only milk, two liters per day on average. This was my way, unconsciously, to get what I needed. But then I became a painter,and using this technique allowed me to answer to this need. In psychoanalysis,this is called the sublimation: realization of a frustrated desire.} ‍

‍_{So, I think I'm still a bit crazy because I'm an artist, but I think being an artist has allowed me to not become too crazy. So this was why I became an artist. And then there was another question he asked me, why are you doing triangles? Just a bit of step back, when I was at school, I was doing, you know, all kind ofdrawings, but very quickly I started to go to geometric forms. And I used triangles more and more and more. For the last few years, I'm using only triangles. And I thought about it, and I said, why? There are a lot of explanations, but one of them is, for a long time, I didn't know who I was. Am I more kind of my mother or more my father? And I realized I'm not my father,I'm not my mother, I'm myself. So, I built myself from my parents, so I'm at the top of the pyramid, my parents at the bottom. So, this is a triangle, butsometime I go to my mother's side when I need, and sometimes I go to my father's side when I need. That's why all the triangles are not the same shape.You know? They change. So, when I was looking at my paintings, at the end, I said. Oh, but I'm painting myself. Because I'm making three angles, you know,I'm painting who I am. So, this is why, when I looked first time at this blue painting, I say, hey, this is my self-portrait. And this is why this paintingis now in a museum in the USA. When you make your self-portrait, it is always a bit figurative, even if you change the shape of the head, etc., it's alwaysfigurative. But here, for the first time, it was not figurative. It was 100%abstract, because I was not trying to show my face and my body. I was showing my personality and my values. And since that day, I like doing triangles,because I think it reflects me well. And it's also not only about myself,because we are all built from our parents. So, it's trying to show who we are,how we built ourselves.}

PN: How did the concept of evolution art come about? What do you want to say with it, and is there perhaps an environmental aspect to it thanks to the recycling?

_{GD: When you do abstract art, normally there is no explanation. It's only about the aestheticism, but I still thought there must be something.And what I realized is that we live in a world where people now are impatient.They want things straight away. They want things to come to them. They want things easy. I am against this. If you look at my paintings, it requires lot of time, sometimes more than 100 hours of work. A lot of patience, because it's a long process. It's not only 100 hours, it's sometimes made of weeks or months. It requires lot of effort, because it's not done with a ruler. It's all done by hand. It requires dexterity. One mistake-- I cannot fix it. So, you need to be focused all the time. You require some courage, because you know when you're gonna start, it will take a long time. Also, when it's finished, there is so much information that your brain could not see it, could not process it. So, you need to go to the painting. You need to focus. You go slowly, and start tolearn to see something. And all those things are going against what people want today. But even if it's more difficult to understand my paintings because of all these backstories-- I don't care. I’m against what is happening today. So,these were the kind of thoughts that I had about my paintings. Again, I never thought about it, it was just after.}

_{But then one day I had another thought. I said, yeah, but everything changes in life. Everything transforms in life like you, physically,you change. Maybe tomorrow, your hair will be cut, you know, to make it short. Or maybe, you know, your house, instead of painted in white, will be painted inblue. And maybe in 200 years, your house will be teared down, and they will usethe bricks to do something else. So, there is nothing that disappear forever.It's only transformation. Always. There's only one thing that I think doesn't change. It's a painting. Once the painting is made, it is put on the wall, and it doesn't change. I went to the Van Gogh Museum, he did all these paintings. Nobody would say, oh, let's add something to what he did. No, it's there. It doesn't change. And the artist can use the same technique, but do something else all the time.}

_{And I said, But why? Why the painting that I made could not have a second life? Could not have a third life? And it's where I started to have the idea to use the same kind of structure, but regularly, to change the compositions inside the structure, and even to change some of the structures;to redo my painting. So, at the end, you could have like, five paintings in front of you. Impossible for you to know that they come from the same main source, or the main structures, because so much things changed. But for me, it's a way to evolve, to get what I did, to change, to transform and to evolve to something else. And by doing this, I realized that,hey, this could be a synonym of parenthood. You know, like I told you, I builtmyself from my parents. And for me, it makes sense.}

_{By doing evolution, I'mtrying to show that, hey, there was something, but it changed. It's not totally different, but it's almost like when you come from your parents, you still have your DNA. It is kind of similar, but with some change. So, it's this, and then I can make a tree of life. But instead of being tree of life, it's all those paintings. So that's why I told you, it has more thinking, because now I'm thinking about this tree of life, what I'm making. And then it has got all kind of other things, like, it's about recycling what you what you did. So, I did something and we tried to change it. So, it's a way for me to say that, when we build something,anything, we should recycle it instead of recreating. People buy something and throw it away and buy something new, but why not reuse it? It can still have a second life. It can still be good. So, the technique stays the same, I'm still doing triangles, I still do my stuff. This doesn't change. It's the way I approach my painting that changed.}

PN: I wanted to speak to you a little bit about the Florence Biennale, because I know you won the third place. What was it like to participate in such a big event, and would you do it again?

_{GD: It was actually the second time that I go to the Biennale of Florence. It's every two years, so let's say, four years ago, I went there. When you go to a bienniale, it's not so much for selling as it is for being in a competition with other people. It's an experienced jury, art collectors, art historians, etc., who judge you compared to others, and I wanted this kind ofjudgment. I wanted to know where art professionals see me. Because when I did other exhibitions, I would get good feedback from people that viewed my paintings. So good feedback from the public, but from the professionals-- I did not know. So, I went about three, four years ago for the first time, and I didn't win any prize, but I finished fifth out of eight or nine hundred artists to get the prize of the public. So, I was happy, I still had the kind ofrecognition from the public about what I do, but not from the professionals. And then I said. Okay, it's okay, Greg, try again. Maybe, they have not seen what you did, maybe you have not explained it well, maybe you didn't show the right paintings. Who knows, who knows. But I wanted to challenge myself again,and then I went again. And it's when I got this third prize out of almost 900 artists. And I was really happy about it, because I never studied art, but I taught myself. I'm an autodidact. I never went to an art school. So, for me, it was the first time that I had a bit of recognition from people who did art studies, were in the world of art, etc. So, this is what made me proud, kind of to succeed, to appeal to this world, which was totally unknown for myself. And I'm going again next year by the way.}

PN: Did you have to talk about your process in the biennale, as you are talking now, as was it judged more on the aesthetics of the paintings?

_{GD: No, and this was the frustrating part, because, like I told you, if I don't explain evolution art, you miss a piece of what I am. And again, I can understand that when I go to a museum, most of the time when I look at the painting, I don't know what the artist wanted to explain. And sometimes I saw some paintings I didn't like, but then having the explanation behind it, I started to like it.  And here ,no, because they don’t have time, they have like 900 artists. They cannot go with each artist and ask questions. They just go and they just look and they judge based on their experience, based on whatsoever. But there was a bit of frustration, because I was thinking, hey, maybe they don't see what I want them to see. But they still liked it because I got the third prize.}

PN: Are you currently developing another concept for your art,or are you still working with the evolution art concept?

_{GD: I'm not planning to develop a new concept, because for me,this concept is really new. The more I think about it, the more I dig about it-- I will need a few lives to explain, to show all that I want to show, to express through this. Because, again, it will not be just the making. I can give you some examples of the things that I'm thinking about. So far, I've been only making individual paintings. So, I made one painting, and from this I created another one. So, I've got a second one, but they are framed in two different paintings. It's one frame for this one, one frame for this one. And currently I'm trying to show them two together, so then I can explain that i twent from here to this one. But they can still, for example, be sold as individuals. But I'm thinking now that instead of making two individuals, I will make the two into one frame. So, then it becomes closer, and it could be two,three, four paintings into one frame. And so that could explain the story. And on the back, I would like to see the tree, and I will say, out of this big tree, this is what I've tried to show.}

_{And then, when I'm thinking about this,there could be like a painting in black and white, and then the same painting made with color. Same structure, but white and then color. But it could be that I do the main structure and the other one I start to show all the details, or it could be that from this main structure, I go to details, but I go to another type of the details, and I could show those two. So, I'm already starting to think about all kind of ways I could show my paintings in different states, moment of life, etc. And I think it will be endless. So, I think I've got only one remainder of my life to try to develop this. I realized that what I still want still to do, is not to create a new type of art, but to put what I make in a different format. So, I've been always workng on paper. Maybe you have seen, I created a vase from Royal Delft, who made a vase with my work. I made suits, umbrellas, scarves. And people told me,hey, Greg, you could make a very nice set of tableware. And I thought about it,you know, to make a nice plate. So, it's all kind of things. I would like to develop my art on other surfaces, maybe one day, on a wall of a house. But now,on top of doing evolution art, I want to put my art outside of paper.}

PN: What do you hope that people get out of your art?_‍

_{GD: On the one hand, just the joy of looking at it, because it's abstract art. You don't need any explanation to like it. It's the essence of abstract art. But because I think it goes now beyond just abstract art,because there are some concepts behind like this evolution of trees, etc., I would like for people to go beyond my technique. Because most of the time when they look at it, they think oh, yeah, a lot of dexterity, it's done by hand, alot of the details, you know, they only see this. And my objective would bethat they see more than this, that they start to understand what all the concepts are behind this. This is something I would like the viewers to arrive at some point.}

PN: Would you like them to get there with their own observation?

_{GD: They will not with their own eyes. You can look at my paintings in different ways, but if I am not here to guide them, to explain to them, they will only get a piece of what I want them to see. One of my dreams is to create a book. Because, I started out drawing on school on folders, and I kept all those folders. A few years ago I did an exhibition with 120 paintings,starting from the first day, where the folder was still in class, with the name "mathematics" on it or something like that. And I showed all the evolution of my art, and people really loved it. So, I would like to make a book from it so people could see the evolution, and at the same time I could explain all the concepts. Like the tree of life, I could make in a page showing the tree and then showing all the paintings behind it. But, yeah, I think I will need help, because by myself, I'm lazy and I'm not good with editing all this kind of thing, you know. So, I think I will need to find somebody who's ready to help me, but it's definitely something I would like to do.}

_{And just to add: next year, I will attempt to beat a world record at World Guinness records for the deepest art exhibition in the world. It will be an art exhibition which is more than two kilometers deep. And when I told you about the difficulty, this is also part of it. It will not beeasy to access my thing, people will need to take some effort, you know, to be able to go see it. You know what I mean? So, for me, it's, again, it's a different way to try to get people go into my mindset and going beyond havingthings easy, quickly, etc.}

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